Wade Robson: What The Heck Is Really Going On? Pt 4

Harold Bloom Put It Best: "Dark Forces Were Gathering Around Him."
Howard Bloom Put It Best: “Dark Forces Were Gathering Around Him.”

When I left off in Part Three, I was discussing Victor Gutierrez, his connections to NAMBLA, and his quest to connect Michael to pedophilia as early as 1986. This led to a series of interviews with parents of children associated with Michael. We know that one of these parents ended up being none other than Evan Chandler, who was already upset with Michael and blaming him as the guy who had broken up his family. We can only imagine that it didn’t take much persuasion to convince Evan, either to construct a lie or to believe the worst.

Back in 2010, I did a piece entitled “Evan Chandler Confessed To Drugging Michael.” This wasn’t exactly in-depth detective work, since the whole incident was discussed quite openly in Ray Chandler’s book All That Glitters. It was just that it surprised me how few people actually knew about this incident (and I think this is largely because MJ fans, as a whole, tend to avoid negative books about him). However, it  also surprises me that even a lot of haters don’t seem to know about this incident. Or if they do, they don’t admit it-perhaps out of embarrassment! (Evan’s actions that particular Memorial Day weekend are pretty hard to defend).

Evan Drugged Michael And Attempted To Set Him Up-By His Own Admission!
Evan Drugged Michael And Attempted To Set Him Up-By His Own Admission!

Let’s revisit what I wrote in 2010. Since most of these older AFLB articles did not convert well when the site was restored (a lot of the original formatting was screwed up) I won’t bother linking to them, but will just copy and paste those passages that are relevant to our purposes now.

For those of you who may be wondering why I’m spending so much time discussing the Chandlers right now, when the focus of this series is on Wade Robson and his allegations, please be patient. Understanding the roots of these allegations is crucial to understanding how someone like Wade Robson has become convinced he can get away with bringing more accusations in 2013. And it is not an easy web to untangle!

First of all, for a glimpse of Evan Chandler’s mindset at or about the time when Gutierrez would have visited him, let’s look at what I wrote in a piece from April 2010 titled “Was Daddy Just Jealous Cause Daddy Couldn’t Play?”:

Michael pretty much had Evan Chandler’s entire family as semi-permanent guests at Neverland,  including ex-wife June and son Jordan, not to mention Jordan’s half-sister Lilly, whose presence in the picture often gets conveniently overlooked, since the media always loved to focus on the presence of little boys at Neverland while ignoring the fact that there were just as many female children who came and went on a regular basis.

MICHAEL TAKING LILLY FOR A GO-CART RIDE

I wrote in November that Evan Chandler couldn’t have been a happy camper during all this. June had divorced him; he had lost custody of his son to her. And now here they were, the two of them, living the high life courtesy of a glamorous and rich pop superstar who had all the success that Evan Chandler wanted, but couldn’t achieve (yes, he had written the succesful Robin Hood: Men In Tights, but in Hollywood, as we know too well, one is only as succesful as one’s last project. And in 1993, Chandler was struggling to get the $20 million he needed to finance his latest projects).

I’ve always maintained that the reason the Jackson-Chandler situation reached such a head was because I suspect there was a lot more emotional investment than just the fact that Michael had befriended this family. For starters, the relationship between Michael and June Chandler has been the source of some speculation. In this anonymous note, published at the time that the National Enquirer first ran the story of Michael and Scott Thorson and which some believed to have come from Frank Cascio early on (I believe it is now generally accepted that Cascio was most likely NOT the source of this note. I am more prone now to believe it may have come from Bob Jones) but, at any rate, who wrote it is not nearly as important as what it says. If we cast aside the possibility that the note could have been completely fabricated (which I can’t rule out, although I believe it has the ring of authenticity) it sounds very likely that that June Chandler was just another notch in Michael’s belt…or perhaps more?

“Then he was celibate for about 3
years, before becoming involved with a pretty, blond employee of his,
an actress from a popular ’80s/early ’90s sitcom, a singer that nobody
cares about anymore but was the ish back in the day, some
groupie/secretary, June Chandler (the mother of punk @#$%$ Jordan who got jealous
of mommy’s relationship with Michael)
 and, of course, Lisa Marie…”

(Excerpted from “Was Michael Jackson A Womanizer”  http://reclaimingafallenking.blogspot.com/).

It does raise some interesting questions as well as putting a whole other spin on how the Chandler drama unfolded the way it did.

michael and chandlers

First of all, it makes sense that Michael would have been sprung for June Chandler Schwartz. She was a gorgeous, exotic beauty with supermodel looks. Additionally, his behavior with June is very consistent with other stories of how he conducted himself when sprung for a woman. The invitations to Neverland, the lavish gifts, the trips and vacations together, allowing her full use of his credit card…all of the things that most critics pinpointed as evidence that Michael was “grooming her” so as to get access to Jordan…makes far more sense in the context that Michael was, in fact, grooming June, in the same way that men have groomed the objects of their lust ever since-well, ever since time began.

Also, without question, he formed a close bond with her two children Jordie and Lilly. Michael became the father figure for Jordan that Evan had never been. Besides, when you’re 13 years old, who wouldn’t want a dad who lives in a fantastical, magic place like Neverland and has amusement park rides in his backyard and can take you on fun, exotic  trips all over the world?

So…put yourself in Evan Chandler’s place. What does he see happening? Hmmm. Well, his son is getting to play with Michael Jackson and having a blast. Mommy is getting to play with Michael Jackson and having a blast. Guess what? Daddy decides he should deserve to play with Michael Jackson and have a blast, as well.

Except for one thing Evan Chandler didn’t quite bargain on. You see, Michael Jackson didn’t find daddies to be nearly as much fun. Back in November when I wrote that first blog [this is reference to a piece I did on Evan and Michael in Nov 2009] I also wasn’t as much aware of  just what lengths Evan Chandler went to in order to become best buds with Michael. I was aware that he wanted Michael to finance his film projects. But I didn’t know just how extensively Chandler badgered him with proposed business deals, or to the extent with which he tried desperately to ingratiate himself to Michael, even going so far at one point as to suggest building his own guest house at Neverland so that he could come and go as he pleased, or stay as long as he liked. Michael refused. He also refused to back any of Evan Chandler’s increasingly demanding business schemes and ventures.

To be honest, there may have been more at stake here than just issues over money and business. After all, this was a period in Michael’s life where he was becoming increasingly desperate for a family, and for the sense of normalcy that having a family gives. I think partially the reason he took the Chandlers in as he did was because he came to view them as a substitute family at first, and then perhaps eventually, as the possibility for a very real family. But the problem: It was never truly “his” family.” It was Evan Chadler’s family, estranged or not. Thus, I think what what really went down was a case of two men who were both seeing their “families” threatened to be pulled asunder, and were fighting with desperate measures to keep it from happening. Michael felt that Evan was an abusive father to Jordie and should be kept away from him; Evan Chandler came to feel that Michael was a bad influence on Jordie. It was a mutual resentment that grew out of mistrust on both sides, and greed on the part of Chandler.

In an excellent series that I’ve been following from Thomas Harris, this is what Harris has to say about the relationship between Michael Jackson and Evan Chandler:

It’s interesting to note that not only does Chandler’s actions, in going to Michael’s entourage and demanding money to finance his screen projects instead of to the authorities, raise suspicion about his motives, but equally interesting is the fact that Michael refused to have any part of this deal, which he rightfully recognized as an extortion attempt. Keep in mind this was after-not before-Evan was already suspecting that Michael was molesting Jordan. Now think about this for a millisecond: IF Michael was guilty of those accusations, and knew it, it would stand to reason that he would have a guilty conscience, and would be extremely paranoid and fearful at even the hint of possibility that this thing could be turned over to the authorities and, even worse, leaked to the press. He would have moved hell or high water to keep that from happening. When you think about it, $20 million to back a few (most likely lousy) scripts that would most likely never get made anyway, wouldn’t have been a drop in the bucket for Michael. A man with a guilty conscience would have paid the sum willingly just to buy Evan Chandler’s silence. People who like to point to the Chandler settlement as proof of Michael’s guilt should weigh that one long and hard. Michael had a golden opportunity to buy their silence long before the insurance settlement, and had he done so -had he caved in to Chandler’s demands to back his screenplays-most likely, nothing pertaining to the Chandlers and Michael Jackson would have ever made it into the media at all. If Michael had been able to foresee the future, would he have changed his mind about backing Chandler’s deals? I doubt it. Michael was naive in some ways, but he was not the gullible fool that many tried to portray him as. He knew when he was being “taken.” He knew he wasn’t guilty. He stood his ground, and in the end, paid the price for doing so.
Okay, so now let’s move forward to that infamous incident of  Memorial Day weekend, 1993:

 Now, what initially made Evan suspicious is when June called Evan from Neverland on April 9th, 1993(pages 16-17) and told him that they are BOTH going to lose control over Jordie to MJ. She didn’t suspect anything sexual, but just felt that Jordie was spending too much time with MJ.  Here is the part where Evan drugs MJ on Memorial Day weekend 1993, from page 45:

Monique reiterated her opinion that Michael was taking up too much of Jordie’s life.  But this time she offered an additional observation.  “Jordie doesn’t even know you’re in the room, Evan.  Can’t you see what’s going on?  They’re in love!”  (Does this not strike anyone as odd? Who the heck uses language like that for discussing an adult’s relationship with a child!).

As You Can See In This Photo With Omer Bhatti, Michael's Young Friends DID Tend To Dress Like Him, and Michael Seemed To Encourage It. But How Much Of This Was Simply Hero Worship And Ego? Did Some-Like Evan-Try To Read Too Much Into It?
As You Can See In This Photo With Omer Bhatti, Michael’s Young Friends DID Tend To Dress Like Him, and Michael Seemed To Encourage It. But How Much Of This Was Simply Hero Worship And Ego? Did Some-Like Evan-Try To Read Too Much Into It?

 The minute the “L” word left Monique’s mouth, Evan believed she was right.  “It should have been a dead giveaway,” Evan recalled weeks later, “when Jordie came walking in the house that night wearing tight black pants, white socks, black loafers and a black fedora, and Michael came walking in right behind him wearing the same thing.  Or when they ran off in to the living room together after dinner and closed the door behind them, leaving me to work alone on the history paper.  Or that Michael never once called Jordie by name, referring to him instead by affectionate nicknames like Applehead and Doo Doo Head.”  (Evan obviously hadn’t spent much time around Neverland; otherwise, he would have known that Michael and ALL of the kids referred to each other by those names).

 “Do you think it’s physical?” Evan asked his wife.

 “I don’t know?” Monique answered.  “It could just be infatuation. But whatever it is, it’s not good for Jordie.”

At this point, Monique suggested that Evan straight up ask Jordie if it was sexual, and Evan agreed.  One morning, MJ woke up with a splitting headache, and sent Jordie to seek Evan’s help.  Evan was in the bathroom, when Jordie sought his help (pages 46-49):

I’ll be there in a minute”. Evan said, and as Jordie turned to leave, added, “Hey Jordie, are you and Michael doin’ it?”

 That’s disgusting!” Jordie reacted.  “I’m not into that!”

 “Just kidding.” (Okay, I know he explains why he did it, but still…that whole conversation just totally creeped me out!).

 Evan explained it this way.  “It was crude, but I was so anxious, I decided on the spur of the moment to say it because I figured it would elicit an unplanned response.”  Jordie’s repulsion brought Evan great relief.  So much so, that he felt quite chipper as he walked down the hall to check on Michael.

 The singer was walking in circles, holding his head.  “I didn’t sleep all night,” he complained. “I’ve got a bad headache. I get them all the time.”

 “Do you know what causes them?”  Evan asked.

 “Yeah, I’ve had them ever since my hair caught fire.  They said it’s from the surgery.”

 Evan offered the standard remedies, aspirin and Tylenol, but Michael insisted they had no effect on him and that his doctor usually gave him a shot of something, he didn’t know what.  When Evan suggested that the call his doctor, Michael refused.  He didn’t want to bother the man on a holiday weekend.  Instead, he asked Evan if he could give him something stronger. 

 Evan rattled off a list of drugs to see if he could find out what Michael’s doctor used.  When he mentioned Demerol, Michael said that sounded familiar.  Evan did not use Demerol in his practice, so he called Mark Torbiner for advice.  The anesthesiologist suggested an injection of Toradol, a non-narcotic equivalent to Demerol, and offered to pick some up at Evan’s office and bring it to his house. 

 Evan injected 30mg, half the maximum dose, into Michael’s gluteus.  (So Evan was playing doctor?). But one hour later the star claimed he was still in a lot of pain, so Evan administered the remaining half and instructed him to lie down and try to relax.

 “Keep an eye on him,” Evan told Jordie.  “It’ll take a few minutes to kick in.  I’ll be right back.”

 “When I went back to check on him, maybe ten minutes later,” Evan recalled, “He was acting weird, babbling incoherently and slurring is speech.  Toradol is pretty safe drug, and I thought that either he was having a rare reaction or had taken another drug and was having a combination reaction.” (Or maybe he was given something else altogether?).

 Other than the drunk-like symptoms, Michael’s pulse and respirations were normal and he appeared to be in no real danger.  So Evan took no further action. 

 But Jordie was scared.  He had seen his friend “acting strange” before, but never like this.

 “Don’t worry,” Evan assured his son, “Right now Michael’s the happiest person in the world.  All we need to do is keep him awake and talking until the drug wears off.”

 Four hours and a serious case of cottonmouth later, Michael began to sober up.  While Jordie was downstairs fetching water, Evan decided to take advantage of Michael’s still uninhibited but somewhat coherent condition.  “Hey, Mike, I was just wondering….I mean, I don’t care either way, but I know some of your closest people are gay, and I was wondering if you’re gay too?”  (This is the big WTF moment!).

 “You’d be surprised about a lot of people in this town,” Michael mumbled, as he rattled off the names of a few prominent Hollywood players who were still in the closet. (Poor Mike, but I have to confess, the thought of Michael babbling incoherently about who was and wasn’t “in the closet” was kind of funny…well, okay, it was a little bit funny, anyway).

 Evan tried to get back on track before Jordie returned.  He stroked Michael’s hair and reassured him,  “I don’t care if you’re gay, Mike.  I just want you to know you can tell me if you are.”

 “Uh-uh”, Michael slurred.  “Not me.” (Lol! Evan wasn’t pulling THAT one over on him!).

Given Michael’s willingness to talk openly about everyone else’s sexuality, his consistent denial about being gay reinforced Evan’s belief that the singer was asexual. (As if there were only two choices? Gimme a break!).

 Michael remained in bed all day, with Jordie sitting by his side on the edge of the single bed.  Cody joined them about ten, and by ten-thirty the three boys were fast asleep.

 Evan was tired, too, but the thought that Michael might awake during the night and take more drugs caused him to get up several times to check on the star.  On his third visit, around 3am, Evan found the boys still fast asleep.  But Jordie was now in Michael’s bed, spooning, with Michael’s arm wrapped tightly around the boy, his hand resting on the boy’s crotch on the outside of the covers.

 Ever so gently, Evan picked up Michael’s arm and moved it to the side, then slowly pulled back the covers.  Thank God!  They were both fully clothed.

Looking back now on what I wrote in July of 2010, there are other details from that account that really leap out and make you wonder. Notice that even though Evan claims to already have suspicions that Michael is molesting his son, he not only purposely sets him up to sleep in the same room, but-upon discovering them allegedly “spooning” in bed, simply lets them be after satisfying himself that they were both clothed. (Wouldn’t a concerned parent have woken the kid up, or Michael up, then and there-fully clothed or not!-and told one or the other of them that this was not acceptable and that they were going to have to sleep elsewhere? Well, yes. Any normal parent would have. But remember, Evan had much bigger designs for down the road).

Could The Infamous "Toradol Incident" Have Been Set Up As An Excuse To Get Michael In The Buff?
Could The Infamous “Toradol Incident” Been Set Up As An Excuse To Get Michael In The Buff?

Also, is it not possible that the “Toradol incident” could have been staged as an excuse to get MJ unclothed below the waist (since its administration required a shot in the glut) so that, perhaps they might be able to correlate a description later on? I think this is certainly plausible. Even if the description Jordie gave later did not match, it could very well be possible that this whole incident was a setup to give them that opportunity.

And what of Michael’s relationship with June? I want to come back to this because it plays into exactly the sort of thing I’m talking about when it came to Michael’s relationships with many of these families.

According to Ray Chandler, Evan not only believed that June was having an affair with Michael, but even stated how happy he was that maybe June had finally met a guy who would be good to her. After seeing the tickets Michael had bought for her to Monaco, he even entertained some hope that she might divorce her then-husband David Schwartz and hook up with Michael. (I am sure, no doubt, he was already envisioning how profitably an alliance between Michael and his ex wife might benefit him!).

And although certainly not the most reliable of witnesses, Adrian MacManus testified under oath that she frequently saw June coming and going from Michael’s bedroom at Neverland.

http://jetzi-mjvideo.com/books-jetzi-04/con/con178.html

Also, about the time that June began hanging out with Michael, she separated from David Schwartz, and her visits to Michael increased exponentially.

Michael gave her a Cartier love bracelet-not exactly a gift to be taken lightly! You can read more about the story behind the bracelet here:

http://vindicatemj.wordpress.com/2013/01/21/june-chandlers-testimony-at-the-2005-trial-revisited-the-love-bracelet/

Michael Gave June A Cartier Love Bracelet. This Bracelet Is Strictly "For Lovers Only."
Michael Gave June A Cartier Love Bracelet. This Bracelet Is Strictly “For Lovers Only.”

Michael’s infatuation with June and her family did not exactly go unnoticed. Before long, even the tabloids were picking up the story (though if this National Enquirer story from 1993 is the one that Ray Chandler was referring to from May 17, 1993, he says it was June’s sister who sold the story).

Although I do not have the scan, the text from that ’93 article is quite interesting. The headline reads: MICHAEL JACKSON’S SECRET FAMILY-A MILLIONAIRE WIFE AND HER TWO KIDS. The story presents a somewhat bizarre love triangle between Michael, a married woman, and her two kids, although readers are left with the impression that the worst anyone could accuse Michael of in this instance is for carrying on an infatuation with a married woman. (Hardly a crime by Hollywood standards). June and her two kids are referred to repeatedly as Michael’s “family.” “I consider you my own family,” Michael is reported as saying in the article. “And I’ll look out for you as if you were.” At another point, he is quoted as saying, “We have so much fun together that it’s ecstasy.”

This story came right on the heels of Michael’s month long “residence” with the family in Las Vegas in April of 1993. Even though Jordie is mentioned several times in the article-including a shopping spree at Toys ‘R Us and a dinner at the Mirage’s Chinese restaurant-it is clear that in this context, none of his behavior with Jordan apparently raised any suspicions, and it seems for all appearances that he was giving both children equal treatment.

“”When Michael walked back to the villa holding their hands, he was smiling like a proud papa,’ said an eyewitness.”

A proud papa. Nothing more; nothing less.

It’s also interesting that one of the exclusive feature photos of the issue is a beautiful photo of Michael cuddling Lilly.

Here is a video that does a good job of outlining how the Michael/June affair came about; other than repeating the lie regarding the rumor that Jordan had recanted his story (he has not) it is very informative:

[tube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7zeB65d3fpQ[/tube]

Anyway, in light of everything mentioned in that National Enquirer article, I am 100% certain it must have been the one Ray Chandler was referring to when he stated:

Simultaneous with their return from Europe, the National Enquirer released a story that disturbed Evan greatly. While he was aware that anyone hanging around with Michael would eventually appear in the tabloids this particular story was about Michael’s new family and described Jordie as if he was the singer’s adopted son.

The article was pure hype, but Evan feared that Jordie might now be a target for kidnappers or jealous fans. Michael had voiced his love for many children, all children, but never before had any one child been described as being that close to the superstar.

Knowing that Dave would share his concerns, Evan suggested he tell June to “stop yapping to her friends.” It was a sister of June’s closest friend who had sold the story to the Enquirer.

Two days later June called Evan to scold him for telling Dave she had a big mouth. No sooner had June finished with Evan when Dave called. If Evan was upset about the Enquirer article, Dave was livid. “That asshole is destroying my business and my family!” he screamed into the phone. Dave told Evan he was getting calls from friends and business acquaintances expressing their sympathy for the loss of his family. He felt humiliated.

Dave also felt double-crossed. Before June left for Europe he gave her five thousand dollars and told her not to accept any gifts from Michael. Dave didn’t seem to care at this point that Michael was constantly showering presents on his kids, but his wife was another story. June took the five thousand, but she was not about to pass up a Jackson-financed shopping spree just to pacify the ego of her estranged husband.

Dave was jealous, but of greater concern was the effect on his business. He was heavily leveraged in a down-turned real estate market, and things were not going well. With his family’s exploits plastered all over the tabloids, his creditors became even more nervous now that his personal life was unstable.

“Calm down,” Evan told Dave. “I’ll call June and see if I can work things out.”

But June had her own lament. “He wants me to get rid of Michael,” she told Evan. “Why should I? Michael’s been good to the kids and me. Dave ignores them. He hardly even bothers to call Kelly anymore. Uh-uh, no way.” It appears as if June was more willing to get rid of Dave than she was of Michael. Dave and June’s marriage had been strained for many years and they had unofficially separated several months before Michael came into their lives.-Ray Chandler.

An interesting dynamic sprung up between Evan and David Schwartz shortly thereafter, in which both men would act interchangeably, and by turns, as both allies and bitter rivals. In a sense, Michael became something of a pawn in both of their schemes to “get even,” with Dave sometimes acting in Michael’s corner, and other times, betraying him, depending on which side of Evan’s he happened to be on any given particular day. Schwartz would eventually demand his own four million dollar settlement from Michael, after having been turned down for a request of a four million dollar loan to pay off a personal debt.

The infamous tape in which Evan confessed he was out to ruin Michael: Apparently, Dave at least “pretended” to be on Evan’s side that day, only to betray him later by releasing the tape:

[tube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tx8Z9fxxw-U[/tube]

However, the portion of the tape that most media outlets played conveniently left out an important piece to the puzzle. Here is an excerpt from Charles Thomson’s 2009 article “Chandler Suicide Highlights Media Bias Against Jackson.” The highlighted passages are my emphasis.

When Evan first met Jackson he felt ‘exhilaration’ and ‘awe’. However, when Jackson stopped returning his calls he became bitter. On July 8th 1993 Evan was tape recorded complaining that Michael had stopped telephoning him: ‘There was no reason why he had to stop calling me’. 

He added that he’d had a conversation with Jackson and told him ‘exactly what I want out of the relationship with him’. 

‘I picked the nastiest son of a bitch I could find,’ he said of his new attorney. ‘All he wants to do is get this out in the public as fast as he can, as big as he can, and humiliate as many people as he can. He’s nasty, he’s mean, he’s smart and he’s hungry for publicity. Everything’s going according to a certain plan that isn’t just mine. Once I make that phone call, this guy is going to destroy everybody in sight in any devious, nasty, cruel way that he can do it. I’ve given him full authority to do that.’

‘If I go through with this, I win big time,’ he continued. ‘There is no way I lose. I will get everything I want and they will be destroyed forever. June will lose [custody] and Michael’s career will be over.’

http://jetzi-mjvideo.com/books-jetzi-01/09chandsui/09chandsui0a.html

This is interesting. If the plan wasn’t “just” Evan’s than whose plan was it? Who was conspiring with him? Secondly, it’s interesting to note that this wasn’t just a plan to destroy Michael, but to destroy June, as well. Evan makes it very clear that his resentment and desire for revenge is aimed at both of them, as a pair.

Into this volatile mix, at some point, enters Victor Gutierrez, the man who has been on a mission since the late 1980’s to “prove” Michael a pedophile.

Evan Chandler Wrote "Don't Let This Happen" On What Was Allegedly A "Suicide Drawing" Done By Jordan. Chandler Gave Gutierrez Permission To Use The Sketch In MJWML.
Evan Chandler Wrote “Don’t Let This Happen” On What Was Allegedly A “Suicide Drawing” Done By Jordan. Chandler Gave Gutierrez Permission To Use The Sketch In MJWML.

At what point did Evan Chandler and Victor Gutierrez hook up? Unfortunately, that is where the mystery remains. It would be wonderful to know for certain that it was before June of 1993, and perhaps one day that important missing piece of the puzzle will be put into place. But for sure, we know that these men not only did meet, but collaborated on several of the illustrations and  documents that went into Michael Jackson Was My Lover. Apparently, however, the friendship between Chandler and Gutierrez eventually soured.

One thing I have noticed-and so have many others!-is that Evan, like Gutierrez, seemed to have an unusually perverted obsession with the idea of a romantic link between Michael and his son. It doesn’t take much detective work to realize that these men spoke the same language (the lingo of NAMBLA and of boy lovers everywhere). Evan’s use of phrases such as “in love” (when referring to Michael and Jordan) are directly in line with much of the language that permeates Gutierrez’s own descriptions.

And let’s not forget what Carrie Fischer said of Evan Chandler:

But remember that dentist who sued Michael for molesting his kid?

Yes, that was my dentist. Evan Chandler, D.D.S. Dentist to the Stars. And this same Dr. Chandler—long before the lawsuit was brought (though not necessarily before it was contemplated)—needed someone to brag to about his son’s burgeoning friendship with Michael Jackson. (This was years before Michael had children of his own.) And so my “dentist” would go on and on about how much his son liked Michael Jackson and, more important, how muchMichael Jackson liked his son. And the most disturbing thing I remember him saying was, “You know, my son is very good looking.”

Now I ask you—what father talks about his child that way? Well, maybe some do but (a) I don’t know them, and (b) they probably aren’t raising  an eyebrow and looking suggestive when they say it. Over the years I’ve heard many proud fathers tell me, “My son is great,” or “My kid is adorable,” but this was the only time I’d ever heard this particular boast:

“My son [unlike most average male offspring] is VERY [unsettling smile, raised eyebrows, maybe even a lewd wink] good-looking [pause for you to reflect and/or puke].”

It was grotesque! This man was letting me know that he had this valuable thing that he assumed Michael Jackson wanted, and it happened to be his son. But it wasn’t who his son was, it was what he was: “good-looking.”-Carrie Fischer.

http://www.lipstickalley.com/f227/fuckery-around-michael-jackson-278542/index148.html

More of Chandler's and Gutierrez's Collaborative "Artwork." Chandler Attempts To Theorize What He "Thinks" Michael's Penis Looks Like.
More of Chandler’s and Gutierrez’s Collaborative “Artwork.” Chandler Attempts To Theorize What He “Thinks” Michael’s Penis Looks Like.

In any event, what we have here is certainly a case of some interesting forces converging. In the next installment, I will look into some other rumored cases that pre-date the ’93 Chandler case and their origins. Also, as long promised, hopefully time will permit me in the next installment to address some of these troubling and puzzling issues regarding Michael’s relationships with kids for once and for all. But in closing, keep in mind what has already been established regarding Michael and June Chandler, who most likely were lovers (let’s stress most likely; we don’t know, of course, and June Chandler these days isn’t talking). Almost ALL of these boys, with a few exceptions I can count on one hand,came from families with single or divorced/estranged moms. Almost ALL of them (with perhaps one exception) had sisters. Remember when I said I believed sincerely that some of these friendships were smokescreens? Now you may be starting to follow my drift. Let’s just say that Michael’s libido probably got him into more than a few iffy situations-and NOT in the way that his detractors would have you think!

Stay tuned…

72 thoughts on “Wade Robson: What The Heck Is Really Going On? Pt 4”

  1. Incredible research on this topic. It’s not hard to understand why Michael’s relationship with Jordy and June became a recipe for disaster. Jealousy, resentment, and greed! Any one of those three can be lethal but when you combine all three, and then mix in the depraved goal of a pervert, it becomes a career-shaking catastrophe. Michael was the perfect victim–extremely wealthy and naive, and desperate to have a family of his own.

    Thanks, Raven. You’ve put together a really convincing account of what happened. Too bad the “haters” are so stupid they ‘ll never get it. By the way, that link you provided to Ray Chandler’s book, All that Glitters, isn’t working. I actually linked to Jetzi but wasn’t able to find the book there. Perhaps I’ve missed it. I actually don’t have a problem with reading less-than-positive information and books about MJ. I’ve researched long enough to be able to filter rather well. I must confess, though, I have a hard time reading “dirty” Diane Dimond’s drivel. I think I’ll read it now just to see how she fell for so much crap in writing it.

    Looking forward to your next installment. If you tire of teaching, you probably could have a lucrative career as a private detective! 😉

    1. Those links are from the original 2010 article. I should have checked to make sure they were all up to date, or removed them. However, I don’t believe there was a link to All That Glitters included. I had a link to the section from the Aphrodite Jones book that discussed Adrian MacManus and her claim of seeing June coming out of Michael’s bedroom on many occasions. I will see if I can find another link to that passage. It may be tonight before I can swap the links out, however, since I’m on my way to work.

      Thanks for the compliment. But my readers who send me such great information deserve a lot of props, too!

    1. I don’t know that answer, to be honest. All of the parties have kept a low profile since 2005, when they last resurfaced. Perhaps someone reading this will know and can provide that answer.

  2. “And let’s not forget what Carrie Fischer said of Evan Chandler”

    Raven , I do not trust Carry Fisher a bit .Whenever I look at Michaels last Xmas photo I see 3 people with him who were supposed to belong to his inner circle but all three have or seem to have sold him out.

    According to Chandlers book, Carry was one of the people who made inquiries about Michael for Evan when he told her about his so called concerns with his son.
    I didn’t believe it and would not have given it a second thought if it was not Carry herself, while pitching her book 2 years ago, ofcourse referencing her friendship with Michael, told how Chandler was bragging about Michaels friendship with his son. And how she thought it strange that he would say how good looking his son was. But ofcourse she never mentioned that that was not her only involvement with Chandler.s connection to Michael.
    Here is what Chandler wrote about Carry Fisher. page 21/22

    >>If anyone knew the skinny about the goings on in the entertainment business its Carry Fisher. Who better to ask. Evan ( working on Carry as her dentist) waited untill the work was finished…and asked her if she had met Michael. Once she said. But I don’t think he likes me. I think he was intimidated. Evan told Carry that his son might be sleeping in the same bed as Jackson and asked if he thought if it was something to worry about. Carry was uncertain but she OFFERED to make inquiries. …………While Evan drove her home, Carry called a close friend Arnie Klein. ‘Arnie I am with my dentist, his son has been spending time with Michael Jackson and he is concerned, What do you think it’s a problem” : “Not at all’ Klein repelled “Tell him he’s got nothing to worry about”. Evan knew that Tinsel town circle of power players was tightknit and protective so he didn’t expect that Arnie would rat on Michael………having celebrities in your practice can pretty much guarantee success.
    When Carry returned to the office two weeks later she brought new information. She had called another friend , a man high up in Michaels security team who was as convinced that the relationship was as dangerous as Klein was that it was safe.<<<

    Imo it was not only VG who was after Michael. I think in Michaels inner circle there were powers that were deliberately sabotaging him and were far more effective than VG.

    1. A problem for me, however, is that I’m just not sure how much stock I put in Chandler’s story. Why would a celebrity like Fischer be THAT concerned or invested in doing her dentist’s personal detective work for him? She may have put in the call to Klein, if the story is true about Evan driving her home, simply because he was pressuring her as a favor to him, but I don’t know if she was invested enough to be going so far as interviewing security people in Michael’s circle. That part of the story seems a bit fishy to me. Carrie had nothing to gain or lose by being a snitch on Michael, and it wasn’t as if Evan Chandler-her dentist-would have been someone in a position to wield that much influence over her, to the point that she was willing to call up everyone associated with Michael. However, there’s no way to know for sure, obviously. Evan is dead and Carrie Fischer is singing a very different tune these days, and would probably never admit to working in Evan’s corner if she did. But I just find it somewhat hard to believe that she would have invested the time of day to help Evan on this goose chase.

      1. I do not put much stock in everything in the book either, but to me it is a matter of probability.
        They knew each other, they did talk about Michaels connection with Jordie and in her own words Evan did make insinuations about Michael and Jordy.In Chandlers book it says that at that time she had only met Michael once, so she didnt know him really. Doctors in hollywood as Carry herself freely admitted were providing special services to their patients/clients and we dont know exactly how her relationship was with Chandler then. If you have the right connections , it is no big deal to make a phone call and people will tell you whatever you ask or want to hear, truth and lies. And she might have thought she was doing a friend a favor.
        Carry had nothing to gain or lose, neither had Chandler to name a random celebrity who could easily deny the story or even sue him for such a grave accusation.
        Yet it is in the book, so I do not rule out that the truth is at least somewhere in the middle.
        When Michael celebrated his last X mas with Klein and Pfeiffer, little did he know what these men would say about him in the media, within a year from that date. Hollywood has different morals and unfortunately Michael got trapped right in the middle of it. like Alice in wonderland.
        VG was too insignificant to work on his own. He needed influential people and he must have got them.

        1. I agree. I suspect that he got some help, possibly even funding, from NAMBLA b/c he has an official acknowledgement and thank you to them in the first part of his book. He says in his book he hired a private detective to help him locate the families close to MJ that he wanted to talk to–that takes some $$, and as a free-lance journalist working piece meal, he didn’t have extra $$ for hiring a private eye. Once he gathered the ‘info’ he could sell it to the tabs–Diane Dimond for example considered him “my best and most reliable source.” He became a source also for Orth and Bashir, for the Neverland 5, and just inserted himself into the 93 and 02 allegations all over the place. There is a connection between him and Feldman or Feldman’s staff. How did it just happen that Blanca Francia was visited by Feldman in person and also by the SB detectives? She is prominent in VG’s book.

    2. ” But ofcourse she never mentioned that that was not her only involvement with Chandler.s connection to Michael.”

      That’s not true, Sina. Carry Fischer does mention that story as well. Only a bit differently than Ray Chandler, but she does tell it:

      “Dr. Chandler’s stories became longer than my treatments. The drugs were wearing off before the story. Not that there was enough dope in the world to make these stories palatable. This was one creepy story. Off hand, I’d say the creepiest. And somehow I’d become this freak’s confidante.

      So I told this bizarre tale to my friend, Gavin de Becker, who specializes in, among other things, celebrity weirdness, with a particular expertise in protecting celebrities from stalkers. He’s written four compelling books about fear and security and the like. So I called Gavin and told him about this dentist dumping this ghastly tale of his son and Michael Jackson in my lap, and Gavin told me, “Here’s what you should say to the guy: ‘Let me get this straight. You’re telling me your son is having sleepovers in the same bed as Michael Jackson. Let me put this to you another way and tell me if you think this is okay. Your thirteen-year-old son is sleeping in the same bed as a thirty-something African-American millionaire. Is that okay with you? Or does it need to be Michael Jackson to make this incredibly flawed situation make sense?’ ” I said this to Chandler and, as I dimly recall, we didn’t speak much for a while after that.”

      I’d trust Carry’s words any time over Ray Chandlers. It’s clear to me, also from other stories in his book that the Chandlers tend to twist most stories. For example Ray tells about this story that the friend Carry called was “a man high up in Michaels security team”. From Carry’s book he just seemed to be some random security guy, friend of Carry, not someone in Michael’s security team.

      1. Any theory as to why De Becker felt it necessary to emphasize that MJ was an “African-American millionaire”? It appears that he’s implying that the situation is somehow even more dire, because of MJ’s ethnicity and wealth. One wonders, would it be less remarkable if Jordie shared a bed with a broke white guy, or an Asian billionaire?

        By the customs and laws if the US, June, Jordie, and Lily Chandler are all African American anyway, a fact that is often list in discussions of the case. A ready-made, good-looking family of the ‘right’ ethnicity must have been very attractive to MJ. It’s a shame that he was so lacking in self-awreness that he didn’t foresee how threatening and destabilizing this was to Evan Chandler.

        Am I alone in believing that Evan was the one with the crush on MJ? June and Jordie just wanted to use him. If things had turned out differently, I think June would have married MJ for his money and been quite content

        1. I don’t know, but I always thought that description of him stroking Michael’s hair was a bit bizarre. Most American men simply do not engage in such intimate gestures-unless there IS a physical attraction. American males are probably the most homophobic people in the world in that regard. They are very conscious of each other’s bubble and, for the most part, will not invade another man’s personal space. A handshake or the good old slap on the back is about as intimate as most heterosexual American men will ever get (but I imagine a lot of this is due to the perceived cultural stigma of “acting gay.”). Of course, this story came to Ray second hand so who knows, it could have been embellished but, still, it struck me as very odd behavior on Evan’s part.

      2. Carry told her story AFTER Michael and Evan Chandler died. Chandler told his story when both were alive. Carry could have challenged Chandlers story, which she didnt as far as I know.
        But she waited till there were no direct witnesses who could debunk her side of the story.
        The same with her story about Kennedy and her and her father snorting coke together.
        Listen to her wording in the way she ‘defends’ Michael, it is not convincing at all and she never fails to tell how Michael had asked her for a photo of her child which she said was the weirdest thing. Mind you, all of this was said after Michael died.

        And indeed Simba, why was it so relevant that he was an African American millionaire?

        1. If Evan Chandler denied it would you give his words more credibility than Carrie’s? If you read the Chandlers’ book it’s very clear that they twist most stories, to say the very least. One small example:

          At one point Ray tries to justify their financial demand of $20 million as opposed to going to authorities by saying they did not want publicity. In support of that he quotes the phone conversation between Evan and Schwartz:

          “It wasn’t just after the fact that Evan made these claims. He expressed his fears about a public airing on Dave’s secret tape, six weeks before the affair became public. “It’s gonna be bigger than all of us put together, and the whole thing’s just gonna crash down on everybody and destroy everybody in its sight.” His son and himself included.”

          The problem with that is, that in the context what was said in the phone convo is actually the opposite! He says “it’s great” that it’s gonna crash down on everybody and destroy everybody! It’s an expression of concern at all! On the contrary!

          “MR. CHANDLER: It’s unfortunately gonna be too late, then, and nothing’s gonna matter at that point.
          MR. SCHWARTZ: Why?
          MR. CHANDLER: Because the fact is so fucking overwhelming —
          MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah?
          MR. CHANDLER: — that everybody’s going to be destroyed in the process. The facts themselves are gonna – once this thing starts rolling –
          MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
          MR. CHANDLER: — the facts themselves are gonna overwhelm. It’s gonna be bigger than all of us put together, and the whole thing’s just gonna crash down on everybody and destroy everybody in its sight. That’s [tape irregularity] humiliating, believe me.
          MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah. And is that good?
          MR. CHANDLER: Yeah. It’s great.
          MR. SCHWARTZ: Why?
          MR. CHANDLER: Great, because —
          MR. SCHWARTZ: I mean, is that how you’re —
          MR. CHANDLER: Because June and Jordy and Michael —
          MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
          MR. CHANDLER: — have forced me to take it to the extreme —
          MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
          MR. CHANDLER: — to get their attention. How pitiful, pitifuckingful they are to have done that.”

          This is just a very small example, but the book is full of twisted things like that.

          1. Suzy you cannot compare what the Chandlers were caught saying on tape that totally incriminates them to a story told by 2 people with the exact same ingredients but different outcome.
            One written before the directly involved died and was never denied.the other story told in great detail and in different versions after they died. If CF thought Evans story was bogus, why was it in her interest to discuss it with de Becker, who I looked up and found is “a specialist in security issues, primarily for governments, large corporations, and public figures”
            And why not tell Michael about it if they were such great friends.

            If de Becker told her ‘Your thirteen-year-old son is sleeping in the same bed as a thirty-something African-American millionaire. Is that okay with you? Or does it need to be Michael Jackson to make this incredibly flawed situation make sense?”
            What exactly does he mean and what exactly is HER opinion.
            And if de Becker, a high profile security expert with connections to all kind of authorities, was told such a story and responded the way he did, who tells me it was not him who brought it to the “right authorities’ with his own twist ?
            I strongly believe that Michael was set up by people in his own circle, not only the disgruntled staff but very influential people who could very well have resentments towards this African American millionaire.
            Who tells me de Becker was not one of them.

          2. Why do you believe Carrie has ever read Evan Chandler’s book and knew what he’d written? It seemed obvious she hadn’t. Her story is credible because it backs up what is known and is consistent with that. It also add bits the Chandler’s chose not to disclose/just outright lied about.

            I actually don’t really care whether or not Carrie defends MJ’s innocence or not, I don’t see why people would believe Carrie would write a biased account in favor of MJ when in reading it I don’t get the feeling she did at all, the interesting aspect is only what she has to share about Evan’s words and actions, and it is insightful.

          3. “And why not tell Michael about it if they were such great friends.”

            MJ and Carrie Fisher were never “friends” let alone great ones. They only met a few times, it was Klein who organized the christmas eve thing after MJ asked.

          4. @lacienagasmiles
            Rhetorical question: do you believe what Wade Robson said BEFORE Michael died or what he is claiming NOW?
            And why do most people here(including myself)believe that Evan did inject Michael with pain medication(or other substance)while we only have Ray Chandlers word for it?
            Ergo, reading the book is irrelevant to the question which story is more likely to be true: one told when someone is alive and can defend himself or a different version of the same story told when he is dead. It is a matter of common sense and let go of double standards.

            What you care about is up to you, I keep an open mind for new information that may help answer questions many people still have, hence this ongoing discussion. Not because I need assurance about Michaels innocence from celebrities who were nowhere to be seen when Michael needed their public support.

            Re Friendship with Michael is suggested in every single interview, unfortunately always related to drugs or other controversies.
            “Not only were you good friends with Michael Jackson, but your dentist was Evan Chandler the father of the first Jackson molestation accuser . Chandler introduced you to an anesthesiologist who made house calls. Is this service common ?“
            http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/08/magazine/carrie-fisher.html?_r=0

          5. Isn’t it interesting that this “concerned: father INCLUDED Jordan in his list of people that had “forced” him to this “extreme”? Playing devil’s advocate, in what way could a sexually abused child-if this were a real case of sexual child abuse-possibly be responsible for the actions taken? This sounds exactly like vengeance (vengeance directed AT his son, as well as Michael and June) rather than fatherly concern.

          6. I agree with lacienegasmiles I don’t think Carrie Fisher necessarily read Ray’s book or had any knowledge about Ray Chandler sharing that story before her. And Carrie never claimed to be “good friends” with Michael, and he especially wasn’t friends with MJ back in 1993. At the time they only met once in what was a very superficial encounter.

          7. Just because a journalist described them as “good friends” it doesn’t make it so. From what I gathered from Carrie’s book and elsewhere they met a couple of times and that was it. Definitely no great, close friendship was claimed.

          8. @Raven

            “Isn’t it interesting that this “concerned: father INCLUDED Jordan in his list of people that had “forced” him to this “extreme”? Playing devil’s advocate, in what way could a sexually abused child-if this were a real case of sexual child abuse-possibly be responsible for the actions taken? This sounds exactly like vengeance (vengeance directed AT his son, as well as Michael and June) rather than fatherly concern.”

            Yes. That phono convo is very revealing about Evan’s true motives.

          9. “Suzy you cannot compare what the Chandlers were caught saying on tape that totally incriminates them to a story told by 2 people with the exact same ingredients but different outcome.”

            I’m using it as an example of how the Chandlers twist stories (like I said, just one example of the many, many) and how their accounts cannot be considered more credible than Carrie Fischer’s on the basis of them writing them before Michael and Evan’s death.

            “Rhetorical question: do you believe what Wade Robson said BEFORE Michael died or what he is claiming NOW?
            And why do most people here(including myself)believe that Evan did inject Michael with pain medication(or other substance)while we only have Ray Chandlers word for it?
            Ergo, reading the book is irrelevant to the question which story is more likely to be true: one told when someone is alive and can defend himself or a different version of the same story told when he is dead. It is a matter of common sense and let go of double standards.”

            Again the mistake you are making IMO, that you seem to base the credibility of a story simply on whether it was told before or after someone’s death. That’s wrong IMO and there are several other factors those need to be taken into account while evaluating a story’s credibility. There were several ugly stories and claims made about MJ before his death. That does not make them any more credible than the nice stories shared after his death. That doesn’t work that way.

            “And why not tell Michael about it if they were such great friends.”

            Like I said, Carrie Fischer and MJ were NOT friends at the time.

            “And if de Becker, a high profile security expert with connections to all kind of authorities, was told such a story and responded the way he did, who tells me it was not him who brought it to the “right authorities’ with his own twist ?”

            We know exactly who reported it to authorities, how and when. De Becker had nothing to do with it.

            “I strongly believe that Michael was set up by people in his own circle, not only the disgruntled staff but very influential people who could very well have resentments towards this African American millionaire.
            Who tells me de Becker was not one of them.”

            You can strongly believe De Becker (and CF) set up Michael to be accused of child molestation but there’s absolutely no evidence to that theory.

          10. Do not simplify or twist what I say about claims made before and after ones death.
            About the book it’s the other way round.
            Chandler wrote his book long before CF went public with her side of the story.
            How could he have known that CF had talked to a security expert( which she did) after EC had told her about Michael and Jordan( which corroborates with her story) and she had offered him( in ECs words) to make inquiries( which she did). The only thing that does not match is whether or not she made these inquiries and OFFERED them to EC and whether or not someone in Michaels security was also involved in her inquiries or just de Becker.
            Because of all the above, the fact that he wrote about it first, the nature of CFs relationship with EC(to say it bluntly, he was her pusher),the fact that she wrote about it after Evan( and Michael)died, imo gives more credibility to RCs story.
            I talk about PROBABILITY he same way people make theories about VG and the same way you believe that Evan injected Michael without proof other than RC words, who you give little credibility.
            I did not say that it was CF or de B who made the accusations against Michael, that is ridiculous. I said that VG was too insignificant to have worked on his own and that there were influential people who must have supported him to start the withchunt on Michael, and that they must have been people in his inner circle.

            And in that line of thinking I do not exclude that CF( and probably more people in Michaels circle )purposely or accidently got involved.
            She had the information from EC, she had the connections, she took the trouble to make the inquiries, not just to anyone, but to asecurity expert who also worked for the government and other authorities, that security person(and CF herself) had strong opinions about the ‘flawed’ situation of a thirty year old AFRICAN AMERICAN MILLIONAIRE supposedly sleeping with a 13 year old boy. What was her conclusion after her inquiery , what did she do with that information, and what did de Becker do with that knowledge?
            These are my thoughts(or hypothesis if you will)that I will stand by and look further into.

          11. @ Sina

            I think we differ in what we focus in this story told both by CF and RC. Your focus seems to be on what CF believed about MJ at the time and things like whether she was a latent racist [ie. the African-American millionaire note]. To me that’s a side issue from the POV of the allegations. I see that to you it leads to suspicions about powerful/influential Hollywood people helping to plant the seed of suspicion about Michael. Perhaps. I don’t know. But what I focus in this story is rather this:

            The difference in the story of RC and CF in what kind of stories Evan told her is only that in RC’s book it is claimed that Evan expressed great concern to CF about his son sleeping in the same bed as MJ. CF however said that EC actually was bragging about it and initially did not feel it problematic. He even made suggestive remarks about his son being good-looking.

            I think CF’s account about that is more believable because it actually correlates totally with the Chandler pattern. Ray’s book is full of braggings about how good looking guys both Jordan and Evan are. Evan is described as a “better looking Rob Lowe”. Also in later interviews with Ray Jordan was described as having the looks of a male model. They REALLY like to brag about their looks and especially about Jordan’s – as if suggesting he must have been irresistable to Michael. So to me the way CF described Evan’s braggings about Jordan’s looks is totally consistent with that. CF’s story basically portrays Evan as someone trying to pimp out his son to Michael. That again is consistent with the Chandlers’ other writings and behavior. In fact, in their own book and Evan on the Schwartz tapes describe Michael and Jordan as a “couple” and Evan’s only problem with that seems to be that he feels left out. Otherwise, as he notes in the phone convo, “I’m a pretty liberal”:

            MR. CHANDLER: I’m just asking you in terms of logic. You know me. I’m not — I’m a pretty liberal guy.
            MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
            MR. CHANDLER: I don’t get in anybody’s way, okay? So, I mean, what reason would he want me out of the way to such an extent that neither one of them will take my phone calls, neither one of them will talk to me?

            […]

            MR. CHANDLER: [tape irregularity] to cut — I mean, I’m young, I’m really liberal. As far as I’m concerned, anybody could do anything they want. That’s my philosophy. You guys can do whatever you want. Just be happy. Don’t get hurt. So . . .

            IMO CF’s account is a lot more consistent with this than RC’s account of portaying a worried father.

          12. What bothers me most in all of this is that it doesn’t/shouldn’t matter how “liberal” Evan claimed to be. His son was only 13 years old! What kind of parent talks like that, or condones such a relationship?

          13. I believe the Chandler sickness with their obsession with their “good looking” son and how this was somehow proof possibly MJ molested him leaked to their whole team as Larry Feldman stated in court how good looking Jordan had been as a child while on the witness stand in 2005! Mesereau had that remark stricken from the record.

            It was like all of them thought how Jordan looked was in some way involved in the abuse, the whole thing is just sick beyond words.

        2. Raven, Evans fatherly concern was non existing. He was as demoralised as the rest of ‘Tinseltown’.
          The more you get to know about it the more you feel nauseated and sad that Michael ended up in their claws.

  3. Thanks, Raven, for putting it all together so well! Now we know from the trial and Debbie Rowe’s testimony that MJ had such severe,ongoing pain and terrible migraines from the scalp surgery, it makes the story of Evan’s glut shot the more credible (as far as MJ’s pain), but as you say, this was a great opportunity for Evan to look at MJ’s body and then construct a phony account that Jordan could tell.

    It would indeed be great to know exactly when, where Evan and VG met, and precisely how much input VG had in Feldman’s civil suit as well as the criminal investigation. Larry Feldman is a major player as well, for example, he is the one who leaked Jordan’s phony deposition to the press before the judge sealed it, and of course it resurfaced conveniently in 2002. He also arranged the interview Jordan had with Dr. Gardener, which Ray Chandler later published in his book, that was the basis for the deposition.

    As far as MJ’s possible affair with June–I myself don’t buy it. MJ met up with LMP in fall 92 and sparks were starting to fly in that relationship. He invited LMP later to meet him in Atlanta on May 5, 93 for a benefit arranged by Jimmy Carter re immunization (Carter was co-chair with MJ on Heal the World Founation). So I think his love interest was LMP and not June. There is a great timeline of the LMP/MJ romance online and I’ll try to find it and post it later. In interviews too MJ himself talks about how he and LMP were together in 93-94 and how they kept their relationship secret.

    I agree this examination of the earlier allegations is critical to understanding the WR recent claim. It’s not just that an allegation is made–you have to look at who is making it, the evidence to back up the claim (or lack of it), and the motivation. Also the way the claim is made–going to the media rather than the authorities, asking for $$, etc. etc All this helps assess the claim as valid or completely bogus. Chandler and Arvizo accusations were riddled with inconsistencies and big blanks as far as evidence. It was the parents–Evan and Janet–who pushed these claims of course and the children first denied them–that is very telling as well.

    Thanks again for this discussion!!

    1. I still believe it was highly likely he was an item with June. There is no reason to believe that, even if he was seeing LMP during this time, that he was 100% faithful or committed to either. One of Michael’s human “flaws”-if you want to call it that-is that I believe he was a player. Someone once said that he wanted a family more than he wanted a wife, and I think there was some truth to that. I think he craved the stability of a family and, of course, wanted children. But he was his dad’s son, after all, and that apple didn’t fall too far from the tree.

      1. Maybe you are right, Raven, and they were an item, but I have not seen enough evidence to convince me of that so far anyway. Re the ‘love’ bracelet, for example, to me it is not proof of a love relationship in itself b/c of how important the word love was to MJ in a more general context (I love you more and endless I love yous to fans, saying the world needs more love, all this is more the ‘apage’ kind of love rather than a sexual love). So he could have bought the bracelet b/c he thought it showed June that he loved her in the more generalized, less sexual context that he loved many people.

        He was asked in the Oprah interview about dating–and he said Brooke Shields and ‘another girl.” I took that to mean LMP, as she had enteerd his life by then. (He met her in November 92 at Livingston-Strong’s house and there was the meeting shortly after where he told her “you and me could get into a lot of trouble, girl. Think about that.” ) He had not yet had the Chandlers to Neverland (their first visit was Feb 12, 93). So by then he had only met June once briefly at Rent-a-wreck.

        I do agree that June C had an interest in MJ but I don’t see him reciprocating. If there is concrete evidence that he did, I’ll change my opinion, of course.

        Here is the timeline re LMP and MJ: http://mjjtimeline.blogspot.com/2009/08/1994.html

      2. Raven, do you think MJ was a player with women who were still married? And 2 at the same time? I question that he was so casual about that. June was unofficially separated from Dave Schwartz–and LMP got her divorce in 94.

        We do not exactly when the romance with LMP got underway but the fact that they were together in public in Atlanta on May 5, 93 is significant to me. Also I read they flew to Atlanta together.

        So if not LMP, who is the ‘another girl’ he told Oprah he was dating–that interview was Feb 10, 93, and he had not invited the Chandler family to NL by then–he had only met June briefly at the Rent-a Wreck back in 92, and never saw her again til Feb. 12, 93. How could he mean he was dating her if he had only seen her once in 92?

        I think the desire to see a romance between June and MJ is part of an understandable effort to clear him from allegations re Jordan. But if he was dating/seeing LMP (but not sleeping with her) it has the same effect, doesn’t it? And IMO is more accurate and believable in terms of the evidence. (Ok, I”m done.)

        1. I don’t know if he would have; only that it wouldn’t shock me if that were the case.

          I think one real problem when we look at what happened in the Chandler case is that, if we don’t look into the possibility of a romance between Michael and June, then it really makes his whole relationship with this family seem quite bizarre-BUT keeping in mind that he also had very similarly, purely platonic relationships with other families such as the Cascios, it isn’t impossible. But Michael was spending a hellacious amount of time with, and money, on this family. Jordan and Lilly weren’t needy kids. His relationship with the Cascios was already well established, so it wasn’t as if he simply needed another family to be a part of and fill his “loneliness.” His haters and detractors-or even the simply cynical-will say it had to have been his infatuation with Jordie. I just think it makes more sense when we start to see that Michael may well have been quite sprung for this woman. But it is simply speculation, of course, and I am always up front in stating when my beliefs are only theories. Obviously, we would need more convincing evidence than just a bracelet, a tabloid story, and one very questionable witness. But it is at least enough to give us a lot of pause for thought.

          1. …..but Michael was sleeping over at Evan’s house without June. I would think if they were in a relationship having June to himself while Jordan was with his dad seems logical. Also Michael had meticulous evidence regarding the Arvizos stay at Neverland, won’t he have more evidence had he had a romantic relationship with June. Where are the hotel receipts, the restaurants that saw them dining out together (alone)? Furthermore wouldn’t he have brought this up during the 2005 trial to help clear his name? I remember a radio interview Tmez gave and someone asked him that, and he alluded to the fact Michael was not romantically involved with June. If he were what’s the big secret?

          2. These are all excellent points raised. However, we do know that June was in his company on all of these excursions. Ideally, we would “think” that two adult lovers would want to spend time alone but…well, we are talking Michael Jackson here, the guy who could never say no to kids. So in that sense, it is not too inconceivable for me to believe he could have been having a fling with her and still turning the whole thing into a non-stop family fest.

            The nature of their relationship did come up in trial, since T-Mez did question Adrian MacManus about their relationship. But true, it did not become a major line of defense and that is the one weak chink in the theory. No matter how secretive Michael liked to be about his relationships, I can’t see why they wouldn’t have pulled out all stops to use this as a defense-if it were true. Surely the need to defend his innocence would have trumped any desire to maintain a squeaky clean image, and really, once you’ve been accused of child molestation, an affair with a married woman seems pretty petty stuff by comparison.

            But I still go back to those comments made by Evan Chandler. Early on, he suspected Michael and June were an item. Of course, that’s the normal reaction most people would have to the idea of any man and woman hopping around the globe together. But the fact remains, Michael and June were together a lot-it just so happened that her kids were never out of the picture.

            I remember asking Aphrodite Jones what she made of the theory, and she said she definitely believed June WANTED an affair with him-but whether those feelings were reciprocal, we simply don’t know (other than the circumstantial evidence of the Cartier love bracelet). Obviously, their relationship-whatever it was-had many wondering, and talking. Whether they were, in fact, an item is a theory, but even the best theories will have holes that can’t be explained. The fact that it did not become a strategy for defense in the 2005 trial is for me probably the most troubling aspect. However, that still does not necessarily mean it didn’t happen. It could just mean that, for whatever reason, the defense team chose not to use it.Sometimes evidence can be considered too incriminating in other ways, and it is thought best not to enter it. I can’t imagine why that would have been the case here, but it’s possible. And by 2005, June had been living quite comfortably for many years off the money she had gotten from Jordan’s alleged “abuse” so I doubt there would have been any incentive on her part by then to admit to any romantic feelings or attachments. It was far better for her to play the role of the victim’s innocent mother.

          3. Yes, in a way, you are right that he spent a lot of time and money on the Chandler family from Feb to June-July. And maybe you are right that if there was not any relationship with June, it looks bizarre from the outside. I think the fact that he met this family so spontaneously–from his car breaking down–that maybe he had some sense of serendipity about this chance meeting? Maybe he trusted them b/c it had happened so by chance? On the other hand, he clearly enjoyed his phone converstaions with Jordan that he made in 92 while on tour. Obviously, they hot it off enough that he invited the fmily to NL in Feb 93. However, I really don’t buy that there was a romance between him and June for a number of reasons–LMP in the picture by then and also no credible evidence. (I agree with Tevamac on the lack of evidence that they were alone together and that it would have been brought up, if a real relationship, in the trial by T Mez in rebuttal to the Prior Acts.)

            IMO MJ made some big mistakes with this family in underestimating the effect of his fame and wealth on them (and esp. Evan). He also made a big mistake IMO when he had Jordan sit on the same chair with him in the front row next to Prince Albert during the WMA. Jordan, Lily, and June all had their own seats in the second row. The stage was a raised stage so their view from the second row was excellent, but MJ took both kids to the front row. It just made him a target with the tabs b/c it fed their negative agenda. Lily was still young, but Jordan was 13, and to have a 13 year old sharing a seat with MJ was unnecessary and a big risk IMO.

            The other huge mistake was when June went along with Bert Fields’ suggestion to let Evan have Jordan for a week. June was being threatened by Evan, but once she let Jordan go to Evan, he never went back to her b/c Evan refused to return him.

            The idea that Evan gave MJ something other than Toradol is believable to me (thanks Lynette). You are right, VG wanted to get away from Chile under Pinochet–as a gay man, he could have been targeted and maybe arrested. Pinochet had a lockdown on the society–and a curfew was in effect every night for many years.

          4. MJ didn’t take girlfriends out like that though – restaurant receipts, etc? No way. We do know he bought her that love bracelet though from Cartier. Mesereau did specifically ask Adrian McManus if she was aware of any romantic relationship between June and MJ.

            I suspect his interest in June was an interest but that he got distracted by Lisa Marie.

            He always had multiple families around though, when the Chandler’s were over with him there were the Cascio’s, Barnes, Culkin’s, Robson’s, you’d think a predator would seek only one child at a time, instead MJ would have all these supposedly abused boys in his bedroom at once and none of it seemed to alarm the other children present.

          5. I don’t believe in an affair between Michael and June. I think Michael considered her a close friend but I don’t think there was an affair. Thing is with Michael that many people spent much time in his bedroom, it was like a gathering place where he and his friends hung out. He was also generous with everyone and liked to give gifts. So these things do not necessarily mean an affair. And I don’t agree that short of an affair with June the whole situation should be considered “bizarre”. MJ was simply like that with a lot of families. IMO it was because of his own disfunctional family – he was looking for other families. And there wasn’t only one such “surrogate family” at once. The Cascios were there since the mid-80s but so was Glenda Stein’s family. So there could be more than one family at once. Actually there were. IMO the Chandlers were just another family like that and June was just another Glenda. Of course I cannot prove that MJ did not have a romantic interest in June, but I do not think any argument should be built on supposing there was an affair, because it’s very shaky grounds. It’s far from certain that there was.

          6. Even when MJ dated and got married to Lisa Marie, and there is hardly anyone who doubt it was a real love affair, he had kids all over the place.
            She talked about it in her DS interview and it must have been one of the (many)reasons for their break up.
            So he could very well have something going on with June and still spent much time with Jordy.

        2. I think there could have possibly been any number of candidates for that “other girl.” Michael tended be to be very secretive about his relationships, as we know, and often some of his most serious flings were with women whose names no one would even know. He mentioned at least one very serious romance during the Gloria Stein conversations, and that was around ’91/’92.

          1. There are two and possibly three relationships with unknown women that he speaks about with the Steins, the only one whose name we know is “Melissa” and we still don’t know who she is.

  4. Raven the reaction that Michael supposedly had is impossible from the drug Toradol. Toradol is a powerful NSAID but it’s side effect would be similar to those of Motrin not the ones that Chandler says he had. I am certain that those side effects came from a drug that Evan seemed to be able to get from Mark Torbiner whenever he wanted. Sodium Amytal. I think he used it on Michael first and when he did not get the desired results he used it on Jordan. I firmly believe that he used that drug on his son. I think on more than one occasion because of the photos that are included in Gutierrez book where he is obviously drugged and someone is taking picture of him like that. Why would Evan Chandler take pictures of his son that way? My guess is he turned Jordan over to Gutierrez to “get the truth out of him”. God only knows what he did to Jordan while he was under the influence of the drugs he gave him.
    It’s my belief, that is was Gutierrez that told Evan Chandler about the use of Sodium Amytal as a “truth serum”. He came from Chile to the US at the height of the Military regime under Augusto Pinochet.In a regime such as that where torture was a way of life and the military ruled would it be unheard of to use drugs to get information from the “dissidents”. I have been looking for information on Gutierrez involvement with the Chilean Military regime because I once saw an article where he referred to it. The kind of person that Gutierrez is and his possible background in military intelligence make this at least a possibility.

    1. I’ve heard that before (that Toradol in no way produces the symptoms Chandler described). However, that was the drug he specifically named. I don’t know how accurate he was in relaying that information; he could have been simply guessing (and was wrong) or perhaps was attempting to cover for Evan by stating it was something other than what it was. Admitting to it being Sodium Amytal would have really been damning to his case.

      1. Raven they specifically name a harmless drug one that would not cause any kind of concern to anyone because they were flat out lying about it.
        In Gutierrez book he has the Consent to Administer used for Jordan and on it the drug is simply called an IV fluid. You don’t have to sign a consent for an IV fluid because they are nothing but that, Fluid that bulks up the blood and electrolytes in the body.
        That is why I have been convinced that he did use SA on Jordan and based on the side effects that he said MJ had I believe that he used in on him as well. The only thing is that SA has to be given IV and not IM which is the way they say he administered it. If they did give him something IM my guess is it was Demerol which is what Mark Torbiner was known for. Demerol would have made him act strangely if they gave him too much which they might have done expecting him to lose control and tell them things.
        Just imagining Evan Chandler stroking Michaels hair gives me the heebie jeebies.Yuck.

        1. Couldn’t agree more!! Yuk indeed!!! There’s something very Martin Bashir-ish about Evan. We know how MB was very good in his self serving way at flattering people to their faces (hair stroking can be part of that in Evan’s case…yuk!!) and then stabbing them in the back the minute he’s out of thier sight. Both had the attitude of “I want something from you in order to advance my sorry career and I’ll do ANYTHING to get it and it doesn’t matter who I hurt in the process! Oh, and if someone does get hurt, I’ll make sure you get blamed for it”. (As a side note I still don’t understand how MB has a job with MSNBC???)

          1. Martin Bashir is one of those that, no matter how many punches he keeps taking to his credibility, he keeps coming back. He’s been accused of treating his subjects in a racist manner; he’s been accused of downright deceitful and dirty tactics (Princess Diana and the case with the father of that murdered child) but people will still overlook all of that and just assume that what he did to Michael Jackson was fair, investigative journalism.

    2. I haven’t checked in for a while but caught this post and found it most interesting, and as always, well written. I found the references to Toradol (an NSAID belonging to the same class of drugs as Ibuprofen) very interesing and agree with Lynette concerning its potential side affects, or lack there of in this case, and that Evan probably gave MJ something else to produce the effect described. Certainly Evans experience as a dentist would have given him knowledge of medication to give varying degrees of sedation. I think most of us, I know I have, have experienced going to the dentist and being given sedatives for a proceedure that doesn’t put you completely out but allows you to respond to direction with no memory of it. A kind of twilight sleep if you will. As for Toradol, I’ve recieved several times via IM for severe headaches near the max dose of 40mg and have never experienced the symptoms described. (It was also confusing to read the reference to 30mg of Toradol being only half the max dose when in fact 40mg is indicated as the max dose.) In fact, a half hour or so later I drove home from the clinic myself. Michael’s association with the Chandler’s was clearly a dangerous one on so many levels.

  5. Also, is it not possible that the “Toradol incident” could have been staged as an excuse to get MJ unclothed below the waist (since its administration required a shot in the glut) so that, perhaps they might be able to correlate a description later on? I think this is certainly plausible. Even if the description Jordie gave later did not match, it could very well be possible that this whole incident was a setup to give them that opportunity.

    If you look at the drawing you’ll see the “theorizing” over the penis is based on some patches on MJ’s glutes. How would they know how MJ’s glutes looked like? Well, thanks to the Chandler’s we know how they knew.

    1. Yes. The drawing says: “my theory: ass blotched shades of brown – so how is MJ(?) p. V be selective Orietta bleach”. It’s like they are theorizing about how the penis could look like based on how the butt looked like (which Evan saw when giving an injection). And the name Orietta is another odd thing on it. Orietta Murdock was a PA of Michael, but she was fired in 1992, long before MJ spent time with the Chandlers. So why do they mention her on their drawing? The link between Orietta and the Chandlers is VG. Murdock was another ex-employee of Michael VG admittedly befriended…

  6. “One thing I have noticed-and so have many others!-is that Evan, like Gutierrez, seemed to have an unusually perverted obsession with the idea of a romantic link between Michael and his son. It doesn’t take much detective work to realize that these men spoke the same language (the lingo of NAMBLA and of boy lovers everywhere). Evan’s use of phrases such as “in love” (when referring to Michael and Jordan) are directly in line with much of the language that permeates Gutierrez’s own descriptions.”

    Very true. At one point even Ray realizes how odd the whole thing sounds because he notes in a footnote:

    “Evan and Monique’s belief at the time, that Jordie and Michael were “in love,” is significant to the problem of understanding sexual molestation in older children. It did not occur to them that the thirteen-year-old was not a willing participant.”

    It did not occur to them? What a lot of BS!

    I think the Toradol story is very odd indeed. Now we know that MJ had genuine pain at the time, having just gone through a painful sculp surgery. I think Evan tried to use the opportunity to get info out of him that he could use against him. In both Ray’s book and VG’s it’s said Evan used the opportunity to ask Michael if he was gay. Michael said he was not, so I guess the result was not what Evan expected/wanted.

    Another point about this newly surfaced information about Michael’s sculp surgery in March 1993. Remember that Anthony Pellicano said he talked to Jordan and Jordan told him nothing happened and it was just his dad wanting money. Pellicano also told that he asked Jordan very specific questions, like “Were you ever nude together in bed?” and Jordan answered “No. Michael never even took his hat off.” The sculp surgery gives an explanation to that IMO and it’s another indication that Pellicano was telling the truth about that conversation with Jordan.

  7. BY the way I don’t know if this is off topic but the guy that has the Facebook page Supporters of Wade Robson Tweeted Stacy Brown who gave his support and said if Wade needs something to call him. Does Wade know Stacy Browns’ phone number? And what something would Wade need from him?

  8. I agree with Sina that there is something off-kilter about Carrie Fisher’s involvement in this story. Keep in mind just who Carrie Fisher is – a very successful writer and “script doctor” for films, creator of the iconic Princess Leia of Star Wars, acclaimed as an onstage monologist. She’s the daughter of Debbie Reynolds and Eddie Fisher, the step-daughter of Elizabeth Taylor, and the ex-wife of Paul Simon. She’s been among the rich and famous of Big Name Hollywood since she was a baby.

    So why the hell is she doing leg work for the scuzzy likes of Evan Chandler? And why did she feel the need to share his, and her, ‘suspicions’ about Michael Jackson with the whole world? Surely she was privy to juicier stories than that.

    Carrie Fisher is a recovering substance abuser, and she is bi-polar. Debbie Reynolds is one tough cookie, but on an interview show with Carrie, she broke down in tears while describing her fears about who will look after Carrie when she’s gone. (After years of medication and electro-shock treatment, CF still has episodes.)

    Carrie wrote this, after spending Christmas of 2008 with Michael and his children:

    “Michael’s celebrity turned many people into eager, greedy stargazers who only wanted something from him above and beyond what a normal human is willing or expected to give…Because normally, for Michael, life was like being an animal at the zoo. An endangered species forever behind bars. I could get in the cage with Michael and not get freaked out, and there weren’t that many people who would’ve known how to, or known that it was even something they might actually be required to do when with him. But I did.”

    CF ‘got’ Michael, on a deep, visceral level. But like all the others, she grabbed a torch and joined the witch hunt. Now why was that?

    1. I see the conversation is going on down here so I’m going to repeat some of what I said above. To me the comparation of RC’s and CF’s accounts is not about CF or her character or what she really believed at the time about Michael and as a result what she told to Gavin de Becker. IMO those are side issues.

      The difference in the story of RC and CF in what kind of stories Evan told her is only that in RC’s book it is claimed that Evan expressed great concern to CF about his son sleeping in the same bed as MJ. CF however said that EC actually was bragging about it and initially did not feel it problematic. He even made suggestive remarks about his son being good-looking.

      I think CF’s account about that is more believable because it actually correlates totally with the Chandler pattern. Ray’s book is full of braggings about how good looking guys both Jordan and Evan are. Evan is described as a “better looking Rob Lowe”. Also in later interviews with Ray Jordan was described as having the looks of a male model. They REALLY like to brag about their looks and especially about Jordan’s – as if suggesting he must have been irresistable to Michael. So to me the way CF described Evan’s braggings about Jordan’s looks is totally consistent with that. CF’s story basically portrays Evan as someone trying to pimp out his son to Michael. That again is consistent with the Chandlers’ other writings and behavior. In fact, in their own book and Evan on the Schwartz tapes describe Michael and Jordan as a “couple” and Evan’s only problem with that notion seems to be that he feels left out. Otherwise, as he notes in the phone convo, “I’m a pretty liberal”:

      MR. CHANDLER: I’m just asking you in terms of logic. You know me. I’m not — I’m a pretty liberal guy.
      MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
      MR. CHANDLER: I don’t get in anybody’s way, okay? So, I mean, what reason would he want me out of the way to such an extent that neither one of them will take my phone calls, neither one of them will talk to me?

      […]

      MR. CHANDLER: [tape irregularity] to cut — I mean, I’m young, I’m really liberal. As far as I’m concerned, anybody could do anything they want. That’s my philosophy. You guys can do whatever you want. Just be happy. Don’t get hurt. So . . .

      IMO CF’s account is a lot more consistent with this than RC’s account of portaying a worried father. So to me this is the important thing in CF’s account, not really what she personally believed about Michael. That’s just the belief of person who has hardly even met MJ at that point.

  9. To me, the CF story told by Ray is just a way to make Evan’s ‘concerns’ about his son’s relationship with MJ look credible. But Evan did not need CF to make him ‘suspect’ MJ, b/c he probably had VG at his elbow by then and had hired Barry Rothman to extort 20 million from MJ. (btw, are there any dates attached to the supposed conversations between Evan and Carrie F?). There were suspicions in the media about MJ going back to at least 92 (Bill Wyman for example) so it wasn’t as if this was ‘breaking news’ in 93.

    re June Chandler and MJ, sure, he COULD have been interested in her/having an affair with her, but I see no evidence to support it. Saying that kids were around when LMP and MJ were together, and therefore June and MJ COULD have been having an affair while Jordan and Lilly were around just means that it COULD have happened, not that it did. IMO it’s unverified speculation re JC and MJ, esp. when you consider that LMP was very much in the picture and she and MJ were publicly together in May, 93 before MJ took the Chandlers to Monaco (the photos of that infamous trip are in the blog post ). IMO June was there as a mother, and a friend, not a GF. However, MJ’s decision to take them to Monaco and Paris was a terrible mistake when you look at the consequences a few weeks later.

    1. What their relationship was we will never know, but his biggest mistake was to get himself involved at all with these families whose red flags of trouble would have scared off anyone else to keep them at arms length.
      Unfortunately Michael didn’t seem to have developed a radar for evil. The sad irony is that most of these ‘chosen’ families turned against him, put his private life out for public consumption or harmed him in a way he never recovered. The worst of them were the Steins who not only published his private calls but also bashed him in the Peretti documentary(‘the Michael Jackson show), the extortionists Chandlers and the criminal Arvizo’s and now Wade Robson as the -hopefully – last but definitely sorriest of them all for his cowardly attack on a dead man.

        1. It is heart breaking. Damien Stein said in the Perelli documentary how after his mother spent many hours listening to Michaels problems, Michael intruded himself in his family, claimed them all especially his mother and made him self the centre of the family. He said everything was about MJ, so much so they got tired of him and he called it the Michael Jackson show.

    2. “There were suspicions in the media about MJ going back to at least 92 (Bill Wyman for example) so it wasn’t as if this was ‘breaking news’ in 93.”

      Exactly, and this more than anything is what I want to establish. With such rumors already circulating, the time was ripe for an extortionist to move in and try to stake a claim.

    3. But Evan did not need CF to make him ‘suspect’ MJ, b/c he probably had VG at his elbow by then and had hired Barry Rothman to extort 20 million from MJ. (btw, are there any dates attached to the supposed conversations between Evan and Carrie F?).

      YES, the date for this convo was April 1993 – which is BEFORE any supposed abuse had happened.

      Isn’t it funny how the abuse only happened after Evan was “suspecting” it? I mean, how convenient.

  10. Raven, do you know what happened to the Vindicating Michael blog? Why has it been suspended? Will Helena be able to be published again? This could only be the work of MJ haters. Please let us know if you find out anything, and if there’s something we can do to help.

    1. I did not know about this. It must have just happened in the last few days. I have not been on social media much in the last few days, either (just too tired by the time I get home at night). I’m sure that whatever has happened, Helena will be back. But there is too much valuable information and research on that site to lose. I definitely hope everything is archived! This is not good.

      UPDATE: I just checked a few minutes ago. It looks like it is back online.

      1. I read that the copyright department of WordPress made a mistake. Some friends of Vindicating Michael contacted them and WordPress fixed it all up again. But Helena is out of commission for a few days/weeks with a broken arm, anyway. Her left one. I had the same problem last spring; it was hard to use the keyboard. I hated having go so slow.

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